Rene Redzepi: Impossibilities And Possibilities, Part 2

This is the second in a two-part interview with chef Rene Redzepi. You can find the first here.

What is the next stage in this exploration process?
It is going to discuss seasonality and how you deal with it throughout the year. We now believe that there are three main ingredient flows in our region. The first one is in our oceans during the cold months from January to April, the second is a green flow of vegetables and anything coming from the plant kingdom from May to August, and the third is in the forests or wilderness from September to December. This is where we see abundance of different ingredients during the year and this is what I feel we should be focusing on cooking in those periods.

Will that change the menu format?
It will change it by season quite dramatically from going from fish and shellfish to vegetarian and then focused on more game meats and wild fruits. These three seasons and how you can eat during these will be represented on the menu. Once you realize that, wow! It makes sense to cook like that you develop a more interesting perspective on seasonality for this region as this is what available here. Once you come to that realization there is no going back and I thought about this and now we have to change into becoming a part of that process. This is what we have been working on for the past three years.

Your critics say that this shift is a way of getting publicity.
Publicity you can get in so many ways, and for us we are really lucky in that aspect. We didn't have to change our restaurant to get that publicity. We have more exposure than ever before and I would say it's actually a huge risk for us to change in this way.

Are you apprehensive about taking on this risk?
It would be easy to stay put instead of taking on this huge risk and continue doing what we are doing now and keep the status quo. We can just move forward and have MAD grow and we have lots of other things to build on while still pushing ahead. We are actually going to close everything and almost start again in a new space, with new rhythms and a new soul.

As a father with a young family are you scared about risking your future?
I am very scared because we are going to risk everything. In reality we are risking a lot to pursue this, and when I look at my wife I feel this one is going to be a big one, almost like starting anew. Of course, honestly it is a big decision. It is easier to keep going here, renovating, building and expanding and continuing our research. Once you know that it is the right way to move forward even if it's risky you have to go with it. If we actually nail it, it's going to be amazing.

What is planned for this present space of Noma?
We don't really know, but we are probably going to let it go.

When do you begin construction at the new location?

Right now it's still that derelict building and we are in the process of going through the last touches with the architect and the authorities. In this project we are not going to be as green and inexperienced as our first project but we are never the less taking away the last six or seven years of growth and development.

The new project will be a restaurant on a farm?
It will be a city farm, based in seasonality and cooking meals based on that aspect during the year. The same quality and standards will be maintained while we cook based on the seasons. We will cook with ingredients from the ocean and then from the plant kingdom, where guests will not miss a single bite of protein, and then focus on the wild food in the next season. I think personally that we will become much better than what we are now.

You do realize that whatever path you choose, many others will follow you all over the world? Do you have a sense of responsibility?
Right now yes people will follow and of course there is a realization about that. I feel we are very good in communicating our ideas and expressing what is going on and we try not to keep anything secret. I think the future is sharing and building of small networks and communities that in turn belong to a larger community. We are part of a community, people come to MAD and become friends, become connected in a big community of chefs that are pushing forward and trying to be there for each other. And truly we are really doing this here.

You have been instrumental in building a fraternity in this industry. Why is that important for you?

I think that is the future, building communities, connecting people, this I think is an omen for the future. It's about doing things together and there is a great irony in the notion that if you want to succeed professionally you have a better chance of doing it if you involve yourself in a community. I believe we can be more successful financially when working within a community as opposed to saying I have this idea and it's only for me. Everybody else can have their own ideas to do their thing while I do my own thing. You may be as successful but not as longstanding a model as when you progress in a community.

Doesn't ego interfere with that process?
It does and this is one of the greater dangers in any progressive movement. Even in a place like Copenhagen if we start telling each other that so and so is very successful as me or God forbid we say this or that young chef in town is getting all the attention we will start looking like the old farts that have nothing to offer.

Once this polemic begins it deters the pushing or moving forward. I think a lot of these situations are based in stupidity and lack of knowledge and so it becomes more important to have meeting places to discuss face to face, exchange and talk. I think everyone in our trade is on the same page more or less. Most people want to have a successful operation to make people, their family and the team happy. They want to be able to afford a comfortable lifestyle in their surroundings, and once in a while a few of these people just blossom through and become extraordinary in their field. This may be from a philosophical point like Michel Bras or from a business point of view like others. Ultimately everyone has the same dream: of building a place where they can work with their craft and make people happy.

You are perceived as belonging to a "cool gang of chefs." How do you respond to such comments?
In some way they are correct as there are a few people who are always in the news and seem more interesting. I think it's unfair to blame the "cool kid" because it's the press that creates this impression. In a sense there is a reality to that because some of these people have a moment, some even a very long moment in the limelight and they continue to be interesting. The press keeps writing about them and though it is at times unfair and too much attention is given. At MAD we try to bring forward people who are relatively unknown like a chef from Somalia or a young female chef from Paris in order to spread the conversation and open the eyes to other aspects of our trade.

I usually don't comment about this subject as I don't know how to deal with it. This whole process of press relations and who gets how much attention, etc., but I do feel that there are people out there not getting their share of attention.

There is a "Chef from Noma" phenomenon around the world with people who spent a short time here with you. Are these stagiaires going to continue coming to the new project?
They are going to be coming for sure but probably fewer in number. Their tasks will be different as we will also be farming quite a bit. It's going to more interesting.

Is the farming another risk factor in this new concept since you will be dependent on nature?
For sure, but then I won't be the farmer myself we are hiring specialists for that job. We will have an actual farmer and we are still working on the logistics of how big the farm will be. It depends on the authorities and how much they will allow us to build into farm space.

When will you be opening the doors to the new location?
We will be open sometime in 2017; it could be May or July. We will close here in December 2016 and for part of 2016 we will be in Sydney Australia.

Are you going to continue organizing the MAD event, as you took a gap this year?
We will and one of the things that people don't realize is that it is hard to source money for it. In order for us to be free and not have logos everywhere we don't have sponsors. We do apply for grants all the time and have dinners with which we hope to fund this. We have built up a network of people that donate, and that's how we do it. We do have individual projects like our Yale project, the wild food projects that get individual grants and get funded for three to five years but that whole budget is separate and not flowing into the organization. Even if the MAD organization disappeared tomorrow, the MAD institute with Yale will still be viable and funded.

What is the next dream?
To have one more child! I have three girls.

Are any of them interested in the kitchen?
Not yet, though they love to eat and be here to see what's going on. They spend every Saturday here and sometimes my oldest daughter likes to set the napkins in the dining room. Who knows maybe one of my kids will find their own inspiration and like to join the family business. I will not push them but if it happens naturally I will open the doors.

You went to Japan this year and next year it's Australia. What is behind this urge to explore?
That actually happened after I had children because my wife and I are a mixed bunch so to speak. Even though we are both white she is from a Jewish background and I come from a Muslim background, which is a strange mix in Europe. I just want to show my kids something about the world and let them experience other cultures and ways of looking at things. These are things I want to do myself as well as I still have the same desire as when I was eighteen and wanted to travel and learn. The difference is now I have three kids and a restaurant so I decided that now all of us could go together.

There are a total of fifteen children traveling this time to Noma Australia. Any team member with children and spouses has the opportunity to take them along. All the children will go to public school while we are there; all they need is a uniform and books. We did that in Noma Japan as well and the kids loved it. Now my kids speak fluent English after this experience and it was extraordinary to see them grow.

Do misconceptions about you bother you?
No, now I am 37 years old and I just keep going, misconceptions will clear out to be replaced by more and so on.

Does the elusive third Michelin star rankle, or are you content with the status quo?
I am not content in the sense that I feel we can go far for reasons that are natural to us and not just for the Michelin guide.

To be truthful any chef who says it doesn't bother him is not being honest. The young chefs who are growing up now will probably not care as much but we still grew up in a very traditional environment and there was only one guide, the Michelin. It was the supreme thing to be in and so I care but I do not care to the point that I want to change anything in my professional life or my private life to go the extra mile to get it.

What about the 50 Best Restaurants list and the controversy surrounding it?
I think it's a great thing and they changed gastronomy worldwide. When they came on board the whole world opened up and so many restaurants from all over the world came into the mix. Yes you can criticize it and there are a lot of things to criticize about it but I try not to take it seriously. I just see it as a big party that has helped fill our restaurants and has changed our region in terms of opportunities for restauranteurs. Of course no one seriously believes that they are the best or if there can be one that is the best. Despite all the controversy I don't think it's ever going to go away. The more talk about it the more it's going to keep growing and in a sense all the detractors are making it bigger.

This is the second in a two-part interview with chef Rene Redzepi. You can find the first here.